I love my former pastor, and believe with all my heart he loved me and cared for me while I attended the SGM church. I believe he still wants what is best for me, and did then, as you can clearly see from his emails. The problem was one of ownership though. The church didn’t own me, but I didn’t know that at the time. And apparently they didn’t either.
However, the fact remains that I truly was convicted of idolatry (not something petty and that is not very serious, but outright idolatry and replacement of God in my life) and was confused as to why I could not break from it. I believe my pastor really did not and does not understand how this could be, because he was so entrenched in the same idolatrous system. But if you read my posts, you see there comes a time that I do find blame with SGM, even if I didn’t realize the “connection” initially.
I have said it so many times before: this is not about SGM specifically or my church specifically. (While I post my real name, I did not post the name of my former church) It is about finding freedom. These posts, made at the beginning of my journey out of the church, show what I was feeling at the time: fear, confusion, defensivess, anger, bitterness, hurt. In the months since leaving the Lord has brought about a wonderful change in my heart, and if I did not share that you may think I still feel the same as when this was written.
I am no longer angry at SGM, my pastors, my friends, the church or anyone. I praise God for them in fact, and have no regrets about my time there. They were a blessing. But many of them are also deceived in some ways, and so I pray for them, and I love them. I truly do. And it was only once I worked through “who’s to blame” (which was no one really) that I realized I had forgiven and had been set free. Today I can honestly say I could (and have had) a conversation with my former senior pastor and not be in fear of what he thought, and I could freely express my concerns to him. There was a time I could not do that. I so wanted to impress him, and I was obsessed with what he thought of me because I idolized the church and SGM. So praise God for His work of grace in my life. One day at a time. Once the body of ideas pushing these teachings is identified, then one can begin to replace the lies with truth, and be set free. That is the process I have undertaken the last several months, but was only beginning to happen when I wrote these emails.
Here is the series of emails that were exchanged between my senior pastor and I in the days that followed. All this took place in April 2008, less than two months ago. Again, names changed. I bolded some of his comments that troubled me especially, even then…looking back now, 6 months later, they still concern me.
Thanks for your letter— I have missed you, but I was told that you were gone on your job and to visit your sister. I only want you to follow the Lord and to be led by His Word and Spirit. I would be less than caring if I did not point out a few things. If you follow your logic, I hope that you never see (your son) as an idol in your life—-you would abandon him. If you marry and the relationship becomes idolatrous by your definition, you would be able to justify divorce. These are not Godly ways to deal with our problem areas. The tendency to idolize is within, not without. Geographical change will not deal with the real issue.
The local church is the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ. He gave Himself up for His church. He came to build His church so that even the gates of hell could not prevail against it. The church represents the presence of Jesus in the world. We are the Body of Christ. We really do need each other, more than we know. I am asking you to reconsider your conclusions. They do not ring true to me, although I deeply respect you and certainly want to trust the Lord in you. I believe that you need a work of God’s grace to draw you back into a right relationship with Him. To walk away from the church at this point will no doubt bring the very opposite of what you hope for. This is not because the church is infallible, nor because of any weird controlling spirit desiring to dominate people’s lives. I fully believe that you know that we have your heart in mind, not an institution. In a sincere effort to care for your soul, I hope that you will call me or come by— I want to speak with you and to try to do for you what others have done for me at so many difficult points in my life— exalt the Savior and find in Him the answers we need.
Love in Christ,
(So was he implying that only through his counsel I can find answers? I thought I had made myself clear that I WAS seeking answers and was finding them. Surely God had revealed much to me already by this time.)
I responded with this:
Pastor XXXXXX,thank you for your response – I was gone all last week and was also visiting my sister. I only let Mary and Sally know I would not be coming back on Sundays last Monday. They were the only people I felt I needed to give an explanation to, aside from you two obviously. Thank you for your advice to consider the areas you mentioned. I want you to know I didn’t make this decision lightly, or without much heartache. I agree that the problem is within me, and not able to change with geography. I know this is an issue of sin that was not dealt with when I left (my former church before my SGM church) and it just came to (my SGM church) with me. I had considered that perhaps just some time away from the temptation to “perform” would be enough. I don’t plan not to attend Sunday services at all, but planned to go elsewhere for a while where nobody knows me and I can just worship and learn without having to struggle so much with what others think of me. I miss that. And of course to continue attending the (other care group). I had no intention of isolating myself or adopting some sort of monastic lifestyle so as to avoid my sin
I’ve been taught better than that these few years. I know the importance of the Body all too well, which is why I have struggled so much. I need the Body, but I need Christ first. I replaced Christ with the Body, and have suffered as a result. Needing the Body but not needing Christ has really served to develop a horrible legalistic mindset in me. I want to get back to needing Him first, being able to hear from Him, and being led by the Spirit. I honestly don’t know how to do that at the church anymore. Have you ever had anyone struggle with these things? What is the way through?I would like to talk with you sometime, either in person or on the phone. It doesn’t matter to me which, although in person I would have to schedule some time later rather than sooner. Just let me know what works better for you.thank you again,
then he responded:
Jesus is passionate for His church. If we are passionate for His church, we are passionate for Him. If the roles are confused in your mind, let the Word of God bring the order needed.I have honestly never had anyone with such a situation as you pose. I do not believe that you understand the true issues. Perhaps , though, it would be wise to take special care in one regard especially: I would be very careful about the danger of becoming dispassionate about the very thing that Jesus is the most passionate about—that for which He died, that for which He laid down His life, that for which He intercedes, that for which He came to form, His bride for which He will return. I tell you in all honesty and love that I believe that you are wrong in your understanding of the situation. I wish that I had the place in your life where you would at least give me the benefit of the doubt and receive these warnings and course corrections. When you speak up in groups or home meetings or anywhere else, I certainly do not believe that people are listening and talking about you. I am not sure where such a concern about what people are thinking comes from unless it is just a pride issue. I do not mean to be harsh, but honest for the glory of God. Please try to hear my heart even if my efforts to communicate are wanting.
so I responded:
I do love the Body, especially the Body at (my SGM church). I am not trying to get to the point where I have no passion for the Church, I absolutely agree with you and appreciate your reminder that Christ died for the Church and the place it holds in Scripture. But He also died for me, personally. I’ve gotten to the point where these people who I love so much influence me more than the Lord does. It became easier to go to others, and not the Word. Easier to seek counsel rather than pray about things. Because I loved and trusted (still do) the Body.
I do realize I am treading on dangerous ground here, and I do receive your warnings. I don’t desire to be out on my own spiritually, or not connected with a local church. I want to have a healthy relationship with the Body. As I’ve confessed these sins and struggles with you and others, it has brought peace, and I’ve felt closer to the Lord and not as dependent on the Body for all my needs.
When I was reading the book by David Powlison “Seeing with New Eyes”, he takes Psalm 131 in one chapter and flips it around – it is a Psalm about David’s peace, and the author’s point was that if you lack peace (which I was) it is due to “noise” in your soul. He suggests reading the Psalm as sort of an opposite, or anti-psalm, so instead of it reading “Lord, my heart is not proud, and my eyes are not haughty, and I do not go after things too difficult for me. Surely I have composed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child on his mother…Isreal hope in the Lord now and forever.” If you flip the Psalm you will discover why we would not have peace and it would read:
“Self, my heart is proud (I’m absorbed in myself), and my eyes are haughty (I look down on other people), and I chase after things too great and too difficult for me. So of course I am noisy and restless inside, it comes naturally, like a hungry infant fussing on his mother’s lap, I scatter my hopes onto anything and everybody all the time.”
I read that chapter and Psalm a few months back and it really showed me the reason I was always stressed, anxious, worrying what others think about me (even if they said nothing, which I doubt they did). It was idolatry. And the more I’ve realized it, the more at peace I have become. This is all my fault, because I gave that power and control to others, they didn’t take it from me or ask me for it. And nobody knew I was worshipping the Body, and not Christ.
I know this sounds horrible. And it is. It is an ugly sin. I’m still shocked by how much like a Galatian I have become. After having begun in the Spirit, I am trying to perfect myself in the flesh. I have become a people pleaser.
thanks again for your responses…
finally, he responded with this email:
I suspect that the way you are thinking you would never have been present to hear Paul’s letter to the Galatians being read to the congregation.
And that was it. We stopped communicating for a while after this. Apparently I had irritated him and his sarcasm came out rather strongly. I’ll post the other comments from my other pastor, which were MUCH more disturbing, in another post.
June 16, 2008 at 1:52 am
Wow, I can’t believe that his last email to you was so nasty! That is so sad.
Ellie
June 16, 2008 at 1:57 am
Ellie – HI!! I know. It was so abrupt, it kinda freaked me out. It was like he threw on the brakes and was sick of my “fighting back”. I am going to post some additional emails that flew between us tomorrow. We had a week of silence after that email – then more emails later. thanks for your comment..
June 16, 2008 at 3:52 am
Thanks for this post. I really appreciate you honest communication with the pastor. I think idolatry of the church is not that uncommon. I have seen this in my own life. We look to the church rather than the King of Kings. It is like a prince asking a servant for help when he could just go to his father, the King! We become so dependent on the leadership, but also, they become very dependent on the people.
I think the great love that these pastors mentioned that they have/had for you was revealed in their sarcastic answer. If they really loved you would they give up so easy on you? Or, did you become too much work for them and not worth the trouble?
Here you are pouring out your heart to him, listening to his counsel, yet he comes back with a joke after all that you said.
I liked your comment about Spurgeon too. I too am guilty of the same. So many “good” books to read that I leave out the most important book.
June 16, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I was so convicted of having more hunger for man’s teachings than God’s teachings. And I was filling my head with all this SGM approved books and not the Word of God. (actually some of the books are really good, but when you get to the point where you desire man’s word over the Lords I don’t think you get much out of it anymore)
As soon as I stopped reading the books and started getting into the Word the clarity that came was UNREAL. I started hearing from Him again, instantly! It was like a long deep drink of water after being with such thirst. That first drink made me realize I had been to the point of dehydration and almost death.
So you won’t see on this blog the books I am reading or recommend, only God’s Word. And maybe one day the Lord will allow me to read books like I used to. I’ve read a book here and there in the last few months, but with so many restrictions I feel. I have to be very careful not to get sucked back into books.
Right now I am still working my way through Romans. I was in Galatians for about two weeks. Hosea for a week, and also spent some time in 1 John. COuple days in 1 and 2 Thess. It’s been all so good. I’ve missed His Word.
When I told a friend of mine who is at the church I just left about how I lost my hunger for the Word, and asked her if she remember the times (before SGM) the two of us would sit and devour Scripture together, with such excitement? SHe said yes. And I said, well, I want to feel that way again. She said..”If you find out how to do it, let me know.” And she had such saddness on her face it made me weep.
Pray God gives me an opportunity to do just that, cause I’ve found the hunger again, just like before.
July 8, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I don’t know whether you have agreed that Jesus died for the church, ” I absolutely agree with you and appreciate your reminder that Christ died for the Church and the place it holds in Scripture” Romans 5:6-19 gives a pretty good description of why he died: redemption from God’s wrath
salvation through blood
reconciliation of man to God
give the gift of grace overflowing to the many
to bring offer of new life to all men
The church is not on the list. Nowhere does the bible teach that Jesus died for the church
July 12, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
The laying down of the life here speaks of death or dying for. Please don’t let you disappointment or experience nullify what the scriptures teaches. I have no dog in this fight, I just want to point out what the scriptures do say. Sort it out from there.
July 13, 2008 at 2:56 am
CD Host and Anonymous – yes, I do believe Christ loved the Church and died for the church – both corporately and individually..we as individuals comprise the Body or the Church, and Christ died for us.
I just think my former pastor was taking things out of context in that he was trying to say that I am to feel the way Christ did about the Church – sort of implying since Christ gave himself for the Church, then I should or something…it was bordering on some serious issues for me. If I love Christ, then I will properly love the church, and the lost. But in that order, Christ first. He wanted me to switch things around..
July 13, 2008 at 11:27 am
Anon –
I see, thank you for letting me know where this notion was coming from. Here is the problem with your interpretation of that verst. paradidOmi, the word you translated as “gave”, is in the aorist tense. This is the tense that doesn’t exist in English, but in Greek you would use for continuing action like “the river flows through the valley”. If you associate the giving with the crucifixion than you would have to hold a doctrine that the crucifixion was a-historical. That is that it hadn’t happened a particular point in time but rather is/was an ongoing event.
What you would end up is something like the doctrine that Jesus is “eternally begotten” of the father. So if you want it to mean that what you are really saying is the verse should be translated as:
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ forever loves the church and is eternally crucified for her.
So the verse allows for your interpretation but only if you believe in the a-historicity of the crucifixion. As far as a I know SGM holds that the crucifixion was a one time historical event that occurred over 10 hours or so on the Friday before Easter around 30 C.E. That is it happened in the past and is done with.. “Gave” in English allows for this interpretation but the Greek “paradidOmi” just doesn’t permit the interpretation you are advocating for this verse.
Moreover I’d prefer the Romans passage regardless since this directly addresses the crucifixion while the Ephesians passage is just a metaphor not really about the church or the crucifixion but rather mainly about relationships between husbands and wives.
July 13, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Yes, the aorist tense is something we don’t really understand, and many concepts in scripture and teachings are in that tense. (e.g. we were saved from sin, we are saved from sin, we are being saved from sin, and we will be saved from sin – Christ was our salvation, is our salvation now, and will be our future salvation)
I’m not here to argue Greek grammar or views on the crucification, I know your beliefs CD Host, and while I don’t have to agree with them nor you with mine, I do want you to know that what troubled me most was not the interpretation of Scripture (as I agreed with my pastor on this one thing) but his application of Scripture. He was using it manipulatively, I believe. And that is the bottom line for me. I don’t have to understand Greek grammar, world history, gnosticism, and be an expert in apologetics to know someone is yanking my chain.
(which, by the way, is why I took that chain off – by the time he wrote that he was unable to pull it anymore, and he knew it, which is why he grew progressively frustrated and eventually just ended the email exchange so abruptly and sarcastically.)
thank you for your comments CD Host, I always appreciate your perspective on things -thanks for your observations.
August 7, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Wow. I found this comment by your pastor very revealing:
“This is not because the church is infallible, nor because of any weird controlling spirit desiring to dominate people’s lives.”
It’s the kind of thing you wouldn’t even think of to say unless it were true, unless someone had accused you of it, which you didn’t. That to me points to the demonic element you’ve mentioned.
I just wanted to add that there’s a reason why people can’t see clearly until they leave SGM (or any other legalistic controlling church).
2 Cor.3: 14-15 “But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.”
I’ve heard time after time people testify that they could not see the truth clearly until after they left. It’s because they are teaching the old covenant, that we are still under law. If you take time to read the whole passage it’s amazing how well it describes SGM, a ministry of death and condemnation.
Your church was actually the reason you were spiritually dying and distant from God. They were putting you (and yes you were submitting, just like I was) under a ministry of death and condemnation, not the new covenant of freedom in Jesus.
August 10, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Jul, thank you for your comments. And you know what? The first time I read my pastor’s comment I thought it odd, but you make a good point that it really isn’t the sort of thing you would say unless you had been accused of it before (and as you said, I never mentioned SGM to him at all or anything about shepherding)
He was defending himself and the church, and trying a bit of damage prevention, and later he would do damage control. He manifested that spirit quite often – the controlling, manipulative spirit I mean. I was so blind to it!